The Breakup Nobody Talks About: When You Lose A Friend

Hello. Hi, Dee. Welcome back. How are you today? You know, I'm really well. I'm really well. The, the sun is shining. We've got a nice cool breeze here in, San Francisco. And, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good. How about you? I'm feeling really grateful for the community that- Ah … has allowed us to show up here. Shout out to Natalie and Dylan. Ooh, ooh. I wish we had sound effects. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. We could make a… Oh. Okay. Fired. Who have supplied us with a space and- Oh my goodness, foam boards … foam boards … photography- And- … art. Banana bread That was so bomb. Mm-hmm. It- So I'm just sitting in gratitude … I, I might maybe sneak upstairs after this one and be like- Yes you know? Homemade. Oh, with chocolate chips. Or blueberry. Or cranberry. Pick your choice. Abundance. Truly abundant. I mean- Through friendship … through friendship. I feel that really deeply, and I've been feeling that specifically this week. And although we won't be talking about abundance and friendship today, I know. Friendship is so great, let's end one. I do think it's important for us to name. Yes. But, uh, we are abundant in friendship and community. Cheers to us. Cheers to us. And shout out to our community. And what a segue- … which is that today we are gonna be talking about the breakup nobody talks about. The friendship breakup. Oof. Oof. You can't not, because we've all been through it. S- Whoo … and they hurt. Friendship endings feel bad, and it doesn't feel like they get the space that they need. There's those moments when the rupture is unrepairable, and there's no ceremony. You're left with grief. There's no container. You're just there, no validation. This episode is that container. So excited to be providing it. The thing that's coming up for me right now when we talk about containers and ceremony is that culturally as well, we don't do a great job with ceremony. And so I think grief in general is something that goes largely untended. I love that we're creating this space because, as you said, I think as a society, grief is not something that is talked about. We don't have grounding practices. I think there is a lot of indigenous wisdom that is brought in, in people's individual lives. But a- as a whole, I would say, like, you know, growing up in the United States, grief is, um, pushed aside. It's dismissed. I oftentimes talk about the fact that we get three days bereavement, and we're supposed to just say, "Three days." And also please prove that it was a person that was close to you before you take that bereavement. Like- Truly … and what that tells you, right? Mm-hmm. So if, if society is collectively giving you three days for a death, a, a physical body leaving this realm, that you have to prove they were close to you- Mm-hmm wild behavior, friendship breakups feel so far away from that type of acknowledgement. And we wanna, yeah, we wanna give it its spotlight. And any breakup or break in general where the other person is still out there existing- Yeah … and not only do you know that, but you might still be seeing them either physically out in the world or through social media channels, just knowing that they're living that life without you in it- Mm-hmm or vice versa, and then there's the compounding grief that comes with those experiences that you now have no longer in relationship. Yeah. And I think for romantic relationships, there is a little bit more of a social acceptance of grieving, sadness. I know when I've broken up with partners in the past, your friends are there for you. Like, "Let's have a girls' night," or, "I'm gonna bring you ice cream." Ice cream. Like- Yes … whatever that is. And yeah, I've had some pretty intense friendship breakups, and they have just happened and gone on. Let's talk about how the endings actually happen, because there's a friendship breakup, but it can look really different, and that can vary by person, by age. Mm. And… Yes. A- and also cause, like what led to the breakup. Was it just long distance and we grew apart, or was there, like, a meaningful ending? Yeah. Well, I mean, I think what you're speaking to, we'll talk about a few different types. The quiet outgrowing. So kind of like there is no fight, there's no like, specific moment. It's just a slow kind of separating. Mm-hmm. Maybe that is unrepairable, you know? I think back to, people and places that I've outgrown. I don't wanna go back there. That does feel unrepairable, and there is grief in that. Yeah. There's the clean cut, where there was some betrayal or knowing. There's an ending that definitely does have a moment, and whether or not it was the fight where you discuss that it's ending or you have a fight where you know there's no coming back from it, and there's some real fire and intensity- Mm-hmm around that, has its own processing and I think also kind of goes back to that conversation around communication styles and how you approach conflict. So it's that sort of quiet walking away versus, like, the full rupture. Absolutely. And yeah, I've experienced both. Yes. Yeah. You know, those moments where, as you said, you can't go backwards. Something is said, something is done, and it doesn't feel like there's a road to return to. Have you ever had… I know in romantic relationship, there's this idea of conscious uncoupling or, you know, we split, but we're co-parenting and raising the kids together. Have you experienced or heard of a friendship that kind of amicably And thoughtfully ended? I don't think so. Is that possible? Ooh, this is good. Because, like, if you could reach that conversation together, could you still be friends? I would say yes. Interesting. There's something about if… Hmm. But maybe I… Hmm. Hmm. Oh. Like, where maybe it's like we're not in the same place in our lives any- anymore and… But there's still a respect. I can still see you out in the world, but we've both, mutually decided. Yeah. It's a… Yeah, normally it's, like, one-sided. Yeah. I mean, it's making me need to know, like, what is a friendship breakup that happened for you that's coming to mind through this description? Yeah. I mean, as I said, there's been more than a few. The one that really is coming to mind is this outgrowing. I think about becoming more myself. Yeah. And, we talked a little bit about this in our race episode of, coming into my Blackness and my queerness, and really just, like, this radicalized persona. I feel like I've always been like that, but I covered a lot. And, I would say I had a friend group who I was very close with, I did a lot with, and yeah, it was just, time. I didn't feel like I fit them anymore, and it was the more that I became myself, the less I became a part of them. Yeah. Right? There was no fight. There was no, like, explosion. There wasn't any even conversation. It was just slowly it became quieter and quieter. And I will say, you know, lockdowns kind of- Accelerated it … ac- accelerated. I hit the mic with, with my excitement. It accelerated. Absolutely. Be- Or maybe, like, allowed- Ooh for the easing out. Say that again. Um, yeah, right? I do… Yes, . There was an allowing because, well, we couldn't go outside. And- Ooh, I can't make it. Yes. My favorite words. You would actually love having a kid then. Oh my gosh, yes. Oh- Continue … that cracks. I can't go, Michelle's daughter is sick. My niblings need me. They do. Um- Can confirm. Yeah. But yeah, you know, I, I think there was an allowing because we couldn't go outside, there was the restrictions and regulations, and I do think it probably would've become time even without- Without that … that built-in, pause that we all collectively had. I was moving closer to my center. I was becoming the person I am now, and I, I was becoming a more fuller self. Sure. And I don't think that those people could hold that. It's interesting to be having this conversation after the non-violent communication and the race episode, right? Yes. Because when we do make these sort of judgments based on years of experience oftentimes- Mm-hmm … of can this person join me on this journey, and is it worth my investment and what I would have to hold to bring them along? Oof. And sometimes the answer's no. Yeah. And there isn't the fight or the huge rupture. And likewise, maybe the fight or the rupture would've come, or the conversation at least. Mm-hmm. The conscious un- uncoupling, if it's possible. If they had asked, "Hey, where are you? I miss our friendship. I value that." But the fact that it slowly drifted on both sides then kind of answers it for you. Yeah. I will say, - Oh, or did they? Well, I was gonna say, so, you know, , I moved back to San Francisco about a year ago, and I did get a lunch invite- Ooh, yeah … from one of them. Yeah. And quintessential me, I was like, "Yeah, yeah," and then didn't go. I will own that as something that I continue to work on. I will take accountability publicly in front of all of you. Heard it here first. Um, yeah. That was so good. We're gonna have to cut that part out, but that was so good. That was so good. Okay, not your part. Yeah. But I… Okay, well, now this is gonna happen sometimes. Okay. Yeah, because my body immediately was like, "Nah, son." Like, no, absolutely not. And what are we gonna talk about? I am Black AF, I am queer AF, I am a hoodoo, I'm a witch, I talk to the moon, I talk to the ocean, and like- That is me, and that's always been me. And I don't think that that's you, and that's okay. We don't have to pretend. Mm. What I am loving about this conversation as I launch into the one that comes up for me is I was on the other side of the friendship that dissipated without a conversation. Um, the one that I'm thinking of was high school, where you feel things so- Ugh, yes … big and so deep. And again, your worldview is so self-centered, frankly- Mm-hmm … that it's hard to really understand that this feeling doesn't last forever. Mm-hmm. And because I had never been in a relationship… God, how old was I? Like 16 or 17. I had never been in a romantic relationship. I hadn't experienced a breakup like that. Mm-hmm. Uh, like the ones that kind of like rock your- Mm … physical and emotional world. , But I had, as you've mentioned, I had capacity for multiple like what I would consider best friends. I think I had two or three. And one of them, I think I was at her house. I mean, I had at times tough family situation, and so I really relied on my friends to sort of hold me through that. And so I spent the night at her house quite a lot. We hung out all the time at school. I… We were talking every day. You know? Yeah. It like that kind of a, a bestie. And then there was a new gal who joined our friend group via her brother's best friend, and they were dating or something, and she and I didn't jive well. And it's so funny to like try and even think about what happened. It… I mean, to this day, I still don't actually know. Mm-hmm. Like, I had a hard time with this new person entering the group, and like we just didn't mesh, and I didn't see how she fit. And then, yeah, my bestie just stopped talking to me. Mm. And it was what, to me, felt abrupt- Yeah … but it was ignoring me in the hallways, no longer answering my calls. Did we have text yet? We were like on the brink of text messages- Yeah … maybe. But it was like a total rejection of the relationship, but also of my physical body. Like, would not share space with me. Mm-hmm. And what's interesting is I remember- sitting in my car at the top of Spyglass Hill and sitting with my mom, I think she had picked me up from school after a particularly hard day, and I was full body heaving- Mm crying. I just felt so hurt, so confused, and I just remember thinking like, "Why won't she even talk to me or tell me- Mm-hmm … what I did wrong?" And this woman walked by, which was interesting, because when you live up on a hill that high, believe me, there's not a lot of strangers- … walking around because, I don't even wanna walk up that hill- Nobody does the number of times. No. But this woman walked by who I'd never seen before, and she reached through my, my car window and handed me, a little plastic kaleidoscope. Hmm. And she said something about, I'm tr- I, I don't know that I'll, I'll do it justice, but, that, that there's, beauty, that, that it's gonna change. Mm-hmm. Like, that you can, - Hmm … look through a different lens and, something beautiful will be on the other side. And then she walked away, and I never saw her again. Michelle was always a witch. I- She conjured- Or, like, attracted or something, but- I mean, I didn't know this story but it did sort of snap me out of that. Yeah, I think I didn't really know how to make sense of it, and even now that's why I'm pausing telling it. Yeah. But it was this offering- Yeah … of a- It's Earth angel … a hand because you're so in it, especially as a- Mm … young person. Mm-hmm. It's a person, offering you a reminder that there's something on the other side- Mm-hmm some sort of learning that, of course, I couldn't understand at the time. But I think that's what… I mean, that's what we started with as we created this container is what does that look like to hold space for grief, and also how do you come out of it? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm still sitting with your Earth angel. Um- I know … I- My mom too, to this day, she's like, "No, that was an angel." Absolutely. And I was like, "I mean, it was just a lady walking by." She's like, "No." No. "Why did she have a plastic…" Yeah. The little kaleidoscope for me to, Ugh … look through and see something beautiful. The thing that comes up for me as you're talking and sitting with this kind of, acknowledgement, you're sitting in the car, you're so deeply in it, and this Earth angel comes and sees you literally, right? I think obviously that is a big, that is a third thingism to be seen. Mm-hmm. They see you. Yes, yes. The ability to feel acknowledged. One of the things that we, we've been kind of thinking about is this idea of disenfranchised grief, and I actually heard it from a client for the first time a few months ago. And in sitting with this question, it came up again, and this idea of grief that is dismissed or pushed aside, not validated in society- Marginalized marginalized, absolutely. And I think about this as in experience of having friendship breakups, and it having space and then very quickly going away. And, you know, I'm, I'm just thinking about this moment for you of really what it felt like for somebody to pause and say, like, "Yes, it will be okay, but I am also witnessing your pain." Mm-hmm. Yeah, and There's an image, I don't know how widely consumed it is, but it's sort of like instead of being at the top of the hole shouting down into the dark space and saying, "It's gonna be okay," it's like crawling down and sitting with you- Yes … and holding that space together. Mm. Um, that is so helpful when it comes to any sort of grief or- Mm-hmm depression or whatever, to just feel witnessed . And now that I'm an adult and I look back, I think so much of some of that young pain and the lack of communication skills is around, I'm no longer seeing this friendship as supportive to me for whatever reason. Yeah. And/or you're too much, you know? Oof. Which was what I heard so many times growing up. Mm-hmm. And I don't know how to communicate that without hurting you- Yeah … in a way that anyone feels safe. Yeah. And so I'm just going to avoid you. Yeah. And actually, that's the kindest thing that I can do. Mm-hmm. Oof. And so I don't know that I could have heard- Mm-hmm any reason that would have satisfied why you don't wanna be friends with me anymore? How can you- Mm-hmm … really have that conversation in a way that isn't painful, especially when it's one-sided? Mm-hmm. Because truly when it is mutual, you do sort of just grow apart- Mm-hmm … and then, and then that's okay. Yeah. But when there's a confrontation, it's usually- Mm-hmm … one-sided. Yeah. Well, I think what you're speaking to is avoidance, and this is something that feels very present for me. Shout out to my therapist. I've been joking that I was today years old when I found out I was avoidant, and everybody in my life is just like, "Girl-" we're so sorry for you." And I was like, "What? Age is… I'm so comforted." Anyways, two things can be true at the same time. Two things can be true. I think in this case, the avoidance is coming from lived experience because of age. And as somebody who's 41, avoidance sometimes for me in the moment, maybe not long-term, can be easier. It is hard to say the thing. And so, when you have these moments where all of a sudden there's, you know, like "what happened" and you don't know, I have been seeing this, avoidance piece in a different way of what is happening for them, that it's so big in their body that whether they don't have the capacity, they don't have the language, that it can't be a conversation. You can't utilize your compassionate communication skills to say, "Hey, this isn't working," or, um, you know, "This is, this, this… Something needs to change." And I think this is what differs so much from romantic relationships and platonic love, is because in romantic relationships there is an expectation. Obviously ghosting is huge, but, I will say there is something about, yes, we're dating, we're in community, we're doing these things together, and it's significantly harder to just walk away- Yes … than it is in a friendship. I think in romantic relationships there's this, well, we will have a conversation- Mm-hmm or something. But there's almost an okay-ness- Yes … around letting friendships go. Yeah. And again, I will say that as somebody who is, you know, today years old and avoidant, and has allowed that okay-ness to justify walking away. It's interesting because I have the benefit of Knowing so many of the situations and sometimes not only safer and just supportive to whatever you're going through in that moment, to not face the confrontation and breathe life into it. Mm-hmm. Because sometimes you know that if you do talk it out, you might be able to come to an understanding- Mm, mm-hmm … and maybe you just don't want to make that investment- Yeah … and that can be honored. Yeah. But yeah, I think you made such a great point about romantic relationships, especially when you're sharing space. You're going to either be physically around each other and naturally repair because you have to do life together, or you have to have that breakup conversation because I will be physically removing my body and my things. Mm-hmm. Um, and you always hear that word like, "I need closure," and even after the breakup you might meet again to sort of rehash. I mean, frankly, after being laid off, I was like- Oof … "I need to… It would be very helpful for me- Mm-hmm … if you kind of put the dots together- Mm-hmm … because I know this isn't about performance, quote-unquote. And so, like, talked, talk that through, and it does help you, assess the situation without as much judgment. Mm-hmm. Because otherwise what happens is you start to self-blame. Mm-hmm. I wasn't good enough, I was too much, I could have done better, they hate me. I mean, I, especially in my younger years, also attached a lot to how I looked. Mm-hmm. Because that was sort of reinforced, like, hello, heroin chic '90s, which is- Ugh now GLP-1 2020s. Ugh. But I- Help us … really felt like my worth as- Yeah … a human, as a friend, as a person in a relationship, was very attached to how I looked or my coolness. Mm. And so I wanna kind of talk about how we deal with grief and, like, what are some of our tools and rituals when it might lend itself towards self-harm. Yeah. Yeah. I think one thing that is super important to start with is naming it, right? If we are saying that friendship breakups is the breakup we're not talking about, we have to acknowledge it, we have to name it, we have to, give it that space. And for me, as a therapist, again, an ism, sitting in it, sitting in that acknowledgement is- How we get through, how we are taking it off the shelf and saying, "This hurts. I feel loss. I feel confused. I feel sadness that this person is no longer in my life." Being able to give it the weight it deserves. Mm-hmm. For me, that is num- a number one tool that is accessible and something that people can do today. Mm-hmm. Being able to think about a breakup, a friendship breakup that you've had that maybe you've put on the shelf. Maybe you have just kind of said, "Well, you know…" But you still hold some of that grief, that sadness. It's unprocessed in your body. Moving that is so important. Yeah. I know many of us have either heard of or read or seen the clips around The Body Keeps the Score, but one of the very painful lessons that I've learned as an adult is that the only way out is through. Mm-hmm. And so sometimes you do genuinely, even just because of bandwidth, and I can't cry my way through work, and I'm not getting bereavement for this loss, .. that I don't have the… I haven't created the space to truly feel it, and maybe I'm masking that with food or alcohol- Mm-hmm … or distraction or TV. Mm-hmm. Maybe it- it's what other people might consider positive. I'm working out. Yeah. I'm just finding… I'm reading a lot. I'm finding ways to dissociate. To distract. And honestly, first of all, I wanna say that's okay. Mm-hmm. Because it's you taking care of yourself with whatever your resources are. Mm-hmm. And what I wanna offer is that there are other tools when you're ready to name it and move through that emotion and allow yourself to feel it, making sure that you're in that safe space, harm reduction, you know? Like- Mm-hmm … where can I ask for help? Can I take a day off from work, a sick day, a mental health day? And one of the things that I did actually very recently was I, I write letters, letters that I never send. I mean, I wrote a letter to one of my best friends who passed away from the impact of anorexia. And even though I was deeply sad, and I love, love her so much, I was really mad. And, being able to sit with that emotion and allow myself to have it and write her a letter that really, came from the heart and where I was allowed to say all the things that you're not allowed to say- was very healing and cathartic for me. Mm-hmm. And I think is an underutilized tool, and I'm gonna say it again, you have to write it with your hands. There's something about that flow from, like, head to heart to hand- Mm … that really allows for this, release for me. Absolutely. Absolutely. And getting it out of your body. Yes. Somatics has changed both of us. The, the, uh, being connected, understanding, and learning about somatics has, has changed my life. And, um- And just quickly, somatics, the way you experience emotion in your body. Yeah. I oftentimes think of it as our body is constantly giving us messages, and it's attuning to that. I used to have headaches all the time, and I just ignored them basically. Mm. I would just take Advil all the time. And then one day I was like, "M- maybe I should, you know, attune to my body and these headaches that I'm having." Right. Somatics was that attunement, helped me get to that attunement. And so this idea of writing letters, using your body, moving that energy, it does really create space. Mm-hmm. I also will add, , water to, tools that, can be really helpful. Thinking about what are the ways that we release into the water. Water, , holds the shape that it's in, and so it can hold a lot. Going to the ocean, the lake, even your shower, and just releasing that out of your body. Being able to say, "This is my grief. I'm honoring it, and I'm ready to let go. I'm ready to give it to something else." I think that's also a really beautiful friendship ending. Really any ending. Any ending. And I think it's a bit of a shift in the framing of how you respond to something that is, quote-unquote, broken. Mm. Because so many of us want to fix. Ah, yes. And, oh my God, I hurt you even, you know, when I was younger, and I wanted to know why, and I can make it better, and I can apologize. And coming into maturity and that it's not always your job- Mm-hmm … to fix it. Maybe that person isn't in a place of maturity. Maybe it's not the right fit. , And so one of the first steps for someone like me who wants to fix and solve is to, again, acknowledge- The loss and let that be okay Mm-hmm Without self-blaming. Mm-hmm. And then once that's there, you can step into these processes of grief. I know that you've mentioned to me before, is it a cutting? Oh, cut and clear. Yeah. Can you tell me about that? Absolutely. It's one of my favorite rituals, and for me as a hoodoo, as a witch, as a magical being, we don't just live in our physical bodies. I oftentimes, sometimes, I oftentimes will say meat suit. Shout out to Jessica Lanyadoo. Borrowing that from her. We exist in energy, you know? It, we laugh about it all the time in the sense of like when we're together and she's thinking something and I say it out loud. We exist in energy. It's always around us, and those energetic connections don't end in the 3D realm in our meat suits when we just stop talking to somebody. And so a cut and clear is a way that you can energetically, cut the ties that, we are connected to. And so- A release. It's a release. It's a release. I think cut and clears are great to do with, people that are no longer in our lives or people we no longer want in our lives- Mm … because it cre- again, it creates that space. It creates space for what else should be there, what else can be there. When we are holding onto this unprocessed grief, it sticks in our body, and that, spiritually doesn't allow for us to receive- Taxing It- Yeah … taxing. I think it also blocks our blessings. It doesn't allow for us to grow. If I am still stuck in, 2000 Yeah what am I missing because I'm there? Mm. And so a cut and clear is something that you can do, to allow yourself to release on multiple- layers- And this is like- Energetic layers … what does it look like? Yeah. So- And can you do it yourself or does someone need to join you? You can, you can absolutely do it yourself. Okay. Um, I recommend doing it yourself. I'm gonna have like 10 of these in a row. I mean- Cut bitch. I'm just kidding. She's not. Um, my last cut and clear had three candles- Okay. Okay … to one. Oh. I was like, "We're done." Oh, yeah. S- yeah. Um, so yeah, I do it with fire energy, so candle magic. Taking one candle with your name on it, one candle with the other person's name on it. I typically like to use, a white candle for myself and then a colored candle that represents the relationship. Mm. And that could just be any color intuitively for you. And then you can take any string. My favorite string to use is floss. Oh, interesting. It, it just burns really nicely. Okay. Don't use anything that has a high heat resistance- Okay … because it won't burn correctly. Okay. Ask me how I know. Yeah, we know. Um, and you know, I, I … You know, I, I said in the intro, I love to do magic. And thinking about this under a full moon, full moons are great for banishment, for releasing- Mm … for giving away. But you can really … You know, you can do this when you feel called. You take that string, you tie two loops on each side, and then hang the loops over the tops of the candles., You can add any types of salt or herbs, anointing oils, which, you know, most of us already have in our house. So,, rosemary, bay leaves, salt black pepper- Mm-hmm Cayenne. So things that are gonna help, depending on what you're, what you're trying to evoke, what you're trying to conjure, and then just light those candles and allow them to burn. You wanna set the intention internally, maybe say something around releasing in love, releasing, and wishing that person well. Sometimes that's hard. Sometimes it takes time for us to get there. You don't always have to say that, but I'm a big proponent of honoring the relationship as it, where it was and what it was for. Mm. And then creating that space in sweetness. Yeah, because I think so many of us know that there were relationships that were there for that time, for that purpose, for who you were in that moment. Mm-hmm. And some of them grow with you. And you know, we've talked about this, that there were periods where we didn't know how close we would stay- Mm-hmm … and then we just kept finding each other again. Mm-hmm. Not every relationship has that capacity, not every person does. Yeah. And so how can you honor and be grateful for the lessons, for the relationship that you did have, while also releasing? Yeah. I'm curious, as we talk about friendship breakups and both kind of, for me, being more, on the receiving end of somebody breaking up with me, and you being the breaker-upper- … how do you know- Mm … whether to have the conversation or not- Mm, mm, mm … or when it's time to walk away? Is there, like, a permission to end? I mean, I'm gonna always go back to finding your internal yeses and your internal nos. That's your North Star. I think there is a body knowing before a mind knowing often. Yes. And that has been really helpful for me. I don't know that there's a, set thing that says, "When this happens, this means the end." Right. It's about understanding who you are and what's the impact of that friendship. For us, as you said, we've had dances with friendship breakups. Sure. And we've had, periods of time where we were less close. Yes. Um, but we always did find our way back to each other. And f- for me, right, that is checking in. I, and I will say, like, probably more in the last 10 years of, checking in with my body around, it's still a yes, right? Yeah. But do that for yourself. Yes. You know? How do you feel when you hang out with the person? Mm-hmm. That was a big reason why I walked away from my friend group. Sure. Because I, I did not feel energized, excited. I felt drained. I felt exhausted because of the mental work I was doing internally to fit a certain way- Yes … or to be less me. Okay, you might hate this- … but this is a great example of our differences. I'm so ready. I was reading the bullet journal method, read it front to back. I just wanted a way to, like, be journaling, but I, sometimes feel overwhelmed by not having a container. I can feel overwhelmed by a blank page. Okay? Fine. It's not bad. I love this But it, like, read me for filth because- Mm … here I am reading a bullet journal, and it asks you to, every time you spend time with somebody, to reflect even for one sentence on how you felt afterwards. And what you might find is that you go back to the last several meetings and you're like, "Oh, I'm very drained by that person." Mm-hmm. Or, "They don't really provide a ton of space for me to share." And- Mm-hmm … you might learn something that you're not quite attuned to in that moment. Yeah. Or you're so ingrained or used to that dynamic that it's not novel enough to flag. Yeah. So it, it… Different ways to the same- Yeah … to the same result, which is connecting your body to your mind enough to bring it to the forefront, and allowing yourself to lead with, like, what is going to help me be the best version of myself. Mm-hmm. And I think many of us who have some trauma in our backgrounds learned to ignore our needs because- Mm-hmm they were ignored by our caregivers or the- Mm-hmm … people who were meant to protect us. Mm-hmm. And so part of the work that we get to, if you choose, is to be the protector for our inner child that doesn't wanna go. We had to put on clothes we didn't want to, and we had to go be in spaces we didn't want to. Mm. We had to hug people we didn't want to. And then we just keep treating ourselves that way because that's how we learned. And so it's that moment as an adult to acknowledge that you do have this autonomy to let go, and I think that you don't frankly have to have a reason to create space. And with some of the frameworks that we've talked about and the tools we've talked about, you might choose to offer that person a reason or have a closing conversation. Mm-hmm. Or you might let it slowly drift if that's more protective. For me, I think a friendship like ours that's been through so much, I'd like to think that it would deserve a- … a, like, a, a real- A weekend? Yeah. We had a really episode working out. Um, you know, but, but that's a big part of why we kept working through it- Yeah is because we've been witnesses to each other's lives for so long that, that it did, even in our worst moments- Mm-hmm … felt worth coming back to- Mm-hmm … and revisiting. Yeah. I think what you're speaking to is a layer of safety. Mm-hmm. And, you can have differences, you can, be authentically you and your friends be authentically them, And that be okay. And if at any point it is no longer okay, if you are feeling like, uh, you, you know, safety across the spectrum, like, "This doesn't feel good in my body," is a layer of unsafe, walk away. Sometimes that is the best thing you can do for yourself. You spoke about your, your inner child or the inner child. Um, yeah, our inner children do need tending, and the ways in which, , re-parenting, parenting ourselves, re-parenting ourselves, can be really healing. Allowing yourself to, to give you what you need then and now. Such a way, such a strong way to improve your relationship with yourself. Ugh. Because when you have self-trust, that when I say, "This doesn't make me feel good," and then I listen to that feeling, I'm then reinforcing that I can trust myself and then the world is your oyster, I mean, yes. And to sort of put a pretty bow on this whole conversation, it's that regardless of the disenfranchised grief of it all, that we get to name that friendship relationships are impactful in a way that can be physically painful- Yes … and emotionally painful- Yes … when you go through a breakup, regardless of which side you're on. Yeah. And that naming that and allowing yourself the opportunity to move through it, offering grace through the moments where you're not ready- Mm-hmm … to face it. Mm-hmm. And then creating ritual around that grief and loss can be a really powerful way to both honor the relationship that you had and also release so that you can move forward. Oh, I love this so much. And I think it's important to just name one more time. It is sad. It's- It is hard. I'm thinking about it from what you just said, because you, the way that you said it was like, "It doesn't matter which side you're on," and what immediately came flooding into my body was like, oh yeah, like, I do miss parts of those relationships. Yes. Yes. There are these moments that did bring me a lot of joy, and maybe those became fewer and far between, but, like, it is sad. Mm-hmm. There is grief. And so acknowledge that grief. Feel your feelings. Don't allow yourself to push it aside because society might say it's not as big or not as important. Well, and grief is inconvenient. Mm. I'm just gonna let that sit there. More on grief later. Anything else that percolated or rose to the top for you? This is- Or, I mean, it sounds like you kind of just- It, yeah, yeah. Um, it, yeah, it is that. I think it doesn't matter what side you're on. And this is why we named this episode The, The Breakup Nobody Talks About. The thing that is, you know, percolating or you know, rising to the top is, wow, we go through life, we have these people who feel like staples, who feel like forevers, and then we don't. There's no pomp and circumstance around it. Um, I feel grateful that we continue to find each other. Mm-hmm. And frankly, I feel grateful for the people in my life who were present and aren't anymore. Yeah. I, you know, I do feel like I am in a place to, to honor a lot of those, friendships that are no longer, because of the work that I've done, because I've given it the space. Mm-hmm. I like that friendship is just such a rich topic to play in, because we get to pull in all of these elements of inner child work, and ritual, and your body keeping the score, and somatics. There's so much space to play as we talk about specifically friendship relationships and how special they are, and then I think the other side is how painful it can be when it's- Mm-hmm no longer aligned. Mm-hmm. Mm. So I, I liked being able to sort of interweave all of that into this conversation. Juicy. Juicy. You know we're gonna break out into song at any moment. Any moment. As we wrap up the episode, the invitation for you is to check in with your body and think about some of the close relationships in your life, and where there may be some misalignment and that could use some tending. Mm. I'm not telling you to go break up with your friends, unless that feels right for you. And sometimes that might be the right thing. Yeah. I think it's more of an, an invitation to check in. Yeah. And are there places where you are ignoring those parts of you that are saying, "I don't want to be here"? Mm-hmm. And how can you honor that? Yeah. Whether it's by- Resting when you need it, asking for something that you need. Can we meet closer to my house- Mm … et cetera. Do you need more connection, or is it time to release in some way? Yeah. There's something about explicitly naming you're allowed to trust your body. Mm. You're allowed to trust your yeses and nos. Again, feel your feelings. It hurts. I'm gonna feel my feelings. Yeah. All day. Will you please pull a card for us? I will. Friendship breakups. Mm. Okay, I'm gonna pull us two cards. Um, I'm gonna read them both upright. Feels right. So we've got two, two, two… So we've got the devil and the strength card. The devil came up on top and the strength card was bottom of the deck. Bottom of the deck at my table is an additional layer of energy, the underlying energy, if you will, which I think plays so sweetly. The devil card to me is the ability to make your own way. It is really speaking about the ways in which we get tied to the status quo. We get tied to the things that we think we're supposed to be doing, the things that might be driving us in good ways and not so good ways. They could be vices. They could also just be, , "I'm supposed to have a wife and kids and, a picket, white picket fence." The devil card is really coming to you to name that you get to pick your way, that you don't have to be puppeted through. And I think as we talk about friendship breakup, there's something really loud about not allowing yourself to be tied, literally, tied to other people and their stuff, and that if it's not working, you can let it go. If it's not working, again, one of the greatest things that you can do for yourself is walk away. In the card, the devil has the two figures literally tied together. Mm. And so it's this, you don't get to choose, and something that's so important is choice. I love this too because this m- like, chain almost to me looks like the string that's burning between the candles. Yeah. That's what I … It looks like two candles. Okay, which? Well, you pulled it. It's her. But the thing that I think is so important is coming back to your strength, and this is quiet strength. , This is taming all that tried to take you out. And I think coupled with the Devil card, if the Devil card is allowing you to acknowledge and name where things aren't working, the Strength card is what's pulling you through. Anytime I see the infinity sign in tarot, to me it is really highlighting that life is cyclical, and if we're not ready to learn a lesson today, we will be back, for better or worse. Yeah. The cards do be reading you. Allowing yourself to know it is at your timing. It is at your pacing. Friendships are complex as humans are complex, and I think what these two cards really are saying loudly about this episode is in that complexity, still come back to your center. Right. Ugh. Gorgeous. Amazing. We'll see you next week. Bye. If today's episode meant something to you, share it with a friend. Find us on Instagram @ The Third Thing Pod, and everything we're building lives at www.thethirdthingpod.com. Episode notes, our workbooks, all of it. And if you're ready to go deeper, real community, monthly events, early access, and to join the group chat, we're on Patreon. The link is in the show notes. If you're loving the show, a rating and review genuinely helps more people find us. It takes two minutes, and it means everything.